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A. Communication.

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excwan



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: A. Communication. Reply with quote

Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.

Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is.

When it comes from the ether and it passes through us, depending on the person,
it is manipulated into a form that person finds suits their views.

As regards manifestation, some people write their desires or wants on a piece of paper and keep it,
some bury or burn the paper, some draw their desires or wants in dry soil that's due to become wet
and some meditate.

How people go about it is different but the process is always the same,
and communication is it's core.

When you get dressed you don't say;
"Right clothes I'm gonna put you on." Well I don't,
most of the time anyway.
Sometimes I don't even look at my clothes,
I know they're there and I know what I'm gonna do with them and I do it.

Do you know how simple that is?

That is an exact example of what I mean by communication.
A direct link between mind and body that allows your soul to create it's desire.

Building a rappor with your qualities, mind, body, soul,
and communicating well with them, is a process which is based around acheiving and maintaining realizations
through experiences and insights.

When your mind is free from it's shackles of pre-programmes and post-programes
then you can allow yourself to use it as it's true purpose-
a tool of choice.

Your soul will let you know of it's desire, which is always in your benefit,
and depending on the quietness of your mind,
you may hear it, you may not.
There are lessons all around for you to learn how to quieten your mind
and if it is right, you will learn.

When you hear that your soul is communicating, you will either
choose to listen to it or you will choose to not listen to it,
and you will use your mind to make this desicion.

Hearing your soul and listening to it are different things.

Hearing it is like hearing the phone ring or seeing the light beam on your uniphone.
Listening to it is like answering the call to see what the person on the other end of it has to say.

When you listen to your soul, which when I do I feel is like a bubble inside me
floating me to places where I should be,
when you listen to your soul and you don't interfere with it's communicated content by not allowing your mind
to wander any useless programmes or thoughts through it,
then you allow a direct pathway to open up between your soul, through your mind, and into your body.

You can then use your body to act out the desire.

This may simply be moving to be in the right place at the right time
and if you stay awake you'll find out why you're there, or
it may be something a little more unexplainably creative.

Whichever, the process always is the same.

I used to use drawings, writings, a number of different avenues to spell my reality,
but then I realized;
"What if I don't have those things when I need them?
There must be a way of doing the same without all these things."

And there is.

It was here I realized what I was doing.

I was building up a picture using any number of methods, all including imagination and intention,
then when I was satisfied through feeling that I had an accurate portrayal of my desire or want I released it using any number of methods including burning the paper into space time or by letting it float down stream of fluid form.

I was building a reality using imagination and intention
and then I was releasing it to become as I am.
Releasing it is as important as building it
because if you stay attached to it, how can it manifest?

When I asked myself this question I realised that I must be handing it over to someone-(I use this word loosely)
who is much more influencial than I am.
It's been coming true even though I've been releasing it,
which means it's beyond me.

Before I began to release my spellings/prayers I used to use a lot of energy trying to make it true myself,
this is a futile exercise and one wrapped in many different dangers to your health.

Having passed this stage I found myself building my spells and then handing them over
to the one I know as 'my creator'.
This practise is like a phenomenon termed an event horizon.

This is where you have a single curve connecting one orb to another.
In order to get to the second orb you must put in the effort to get to the top of the curve,
and when you reach that point,
something pulls you to the end of it with no effort of your own. Then you've arrived.

I see this like I see my spelling, it's a request, a polite demand,
just as is the Lord's prayer and other famous spellings.

You build the request and then you put foward the request by releasing it or handing it over
and if you have the correct communication with your qualities and your creator,
you'll have it as you are.

And there is no time frame when it comes to prayers.

Just like some people believe you have to do certain things in order for a spell to come true,
some believe there are specific time frames they have to wait for their prayers to come true.

Here is what I say of that - You are what you believe.

If you believe you have to go through a certain process in order for something to happen,
most likely that's what you're going to have to do.

However, there are some things for which you have to wait, or not so much wait for, just not interfere with in the way of magic, like when it comes to situations with other people.

We have no right to impose a spell upon another person without their consent.

Just be careful because if you think of imposing a spell upon another
person then you are not listening to your soul's desires,
you would be listening to the wants of your false mind, the illusions.

Pray for your needs and the needs of others and you shall have no wants.

Be aware of what's happening, inside and outside, it's the same.


Best wishes,

excwan.
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Click here to see amazing video testimonials of the Power of the Manifestation Master. Manifest all your desires. Click HERE!!!

 

Zygos



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: A. Communication. Reply with quote

Hmmm, I'll have to do one of these. Below...

excwan wrote:
Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.

Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is.


No, not really. Perhaps the end result could be seen as the same. But generally there isn't one big method of doing it. And not all ways work for everyone.

Quote:
When it comes from the ether and it passes through us, depending on the person,
it is manipulated into a form that person finds suits their views.


This seems to be perspective as well. I know I can't force my will on the universe. I can request things to take place sure. And I often feel at this point like I meld with the universe and its views become mine.

Quote:
As regards manifestation, some people write their desires or wants on a piece of paper and keep it,
some bury or burn the paper, some draw their desires or wants in dry soil that's due to become wet
and some meditate.

How people go about it is different but the process is always the same,
and communication is it's core.

When you get dressed you don't say;
"Right clothes I'm gonna put you on." Well I don't,
most of the time anyway.
Sometimes I don't even look at my clothes,
I know they're there and I know what I'm gonna do with them and I do it.


Actually one can get dressed in many ways. Do you strip and put on socks first and work your way up. Is underwear your first priority, or do you wear underwear at all. Most people have ritual in what they do. And I think I know what your getting at. But for most (Myself included) if you are to say that the ritual is meaningless, then you would find yourself not dressed.

Quote:
Do you know how simple that is?

That is an exact example of what I mean by communication.
A direct link between mind and body that allows your soul to create it's desire.


The mind isn't the only thing that creates manifestation. Most manifestation is subconscious. That thing that people are always taking about when you create your own reality. Yes manifestation from the form of doing it consciously can be easy, the hard is combatting/understanding the part of your own body subconsciously going against your mainfestations. (Generally due to fear, or programming).

Quote:
Building a rappor with your qualities, mind, body, soul,
and communicating well with them, is a process which is based around acheiving and maintaining realizations
through experiences and insights.

When your mind is free from it's shackles of pre-programmes and post-programes
then you can allow yourself to use it as it's true purpose-
a tool of choice.

Your soul will let you know of it's desire, which is always in your benefit,
and depending on the quietness of your mind,
you may hear it, you may not.
There are lessons all around for you to learn how to quieten your mind
and if it is right, you will learn.


I agree.

Quote:
When you hear that your soul is communicating, you will either
choose to listen to it or you will choose to not listen to it,
and you will use your mind to make this desicion.


Your way oversimplifying this. A lot of people have to learn what the voice of their soul sounds like that, over what the voice of their body or ego sounds like. So its not always as much that they are ignoring that voice; (Though many of us do) but more so that they haven't learned how to distinguish the voice of their soul from everything else.

Quote:
Hearing your soul and listening to it are different things.

Hearing it is like hearing the phone ring or seeing the light beam on your uniphone.
Listening to it is like answering the call to see what the person on the other end of it has to say.


*laughs* yes, however the soul can be very criptic in its lessons. For me personally I remember my soul chanting to me over and over "Relax your mind, relax your body, relax your soul". That was the fullness of the instructions, nothing else, no questions answered, just the phrase repeated over and over again. It took me a good part of 2 years to work out how to do that.

So again don't oversimplify the soul generally doesn't give you simple requests such as turn down the heat or, don't eat that ham sandwich.

Quote:
When you listen to your soul, which when I do I feel is like a bubble inside me
floating me to places where I should be,
when you listen to your soul and you don't interfere with it's communicated content by not allowing your mind
to wander any useless programmes or thoughts through it,
then you allow a direct pathway to open up between your soul, through your mind, and into your body.


Yes true, however unless your a monk on a high mountain top, generally your not in a place whereas you can easily go into that state.

Quote:
You can then use your body to act out the desire.


If you know what the desire actually wants. Again IME the soul is cryptic.

Quote:
This may simply be moving to be in the right place at the right time
and if you stay awake you'll find out why you're there, or
it may be something a little more unexplainably creative.

Whichever, the process always is the same.

I used to use drawings, writings, a number of different avenues to spell my reality,
but then I realized;
"What if I don't have those things when I need them?
There must be a way of doing the same without all these things."


I would say that no, maybe you didn't need them at this latter point. However generally when you first do manifestation you have a ritual.

Because lets face it, in this reality whereas we all live in; manifestation isn't something that fits in. It generally goes into the catagory of "rare miraculous". And when your first doing it, simply asking for something generally won't work because your mind will get in the way and say "This is stupid!".

However with ritual the mind won't get in the way so much. Thats why prayer works so often, because the mind doesn't get in the way.

Its like that saying ""you have to crawl before you can walk". When you first do manifestation consciously it generally has to be baby steps. And for most its as above, writing it down and burning it, creating a circle and speaking it in mantra. Later on, I agree you don't do those things anymore.
But don't invalidate your previous ritual, as being unnecessary back then just because you don't need thus ritual now.

Quote:
And there is.

It was here I realized what I was doing.

I was building up a picture using any number of methods, all including imagination and intention,
then when I was satisfied through feeling that I had an accurate portrayal of my desire or want I released it using any number of methods including burning the paper into space time or by letting it float down stream of fluid form.

I was building a reality using imagination and intention
and then I was releasing it to become as I am.
Releasing it is as important as building it
because if you stay attached to it, how can it manifest?

When I asked myself this question I realised that I must be handing it over to someone-(I use this word loosely)
who is much more influencial than I am.
It's been coming true even though I've been releasing it,
which means it's beyond me.

Before I began to release my spellings/prayers I used to use a lot of energy trying to make it true myself,
this is a futile exercise and one wrapped in many different dangers to your health.


"Making it true <all by> myself". I like that phrase. My way of saying that would be "not letting it go". Trying to make it true, means that you haven't let the request go to be fufilled....anyhow

Quote:
Having passed this stage I found myself building my spells and then handing them over
to the one I know as 'my creator'.
This practise is like a phenomenon termed an event horizon.

This is where you have a single curve connecting one orb to another.
In order to get to the second orb you must put in the effort to get to the top of the curve,
and when you reach that point,
something pulls you to the end of it with no effort of your own. Then you've arrived.

I see this like I see my spelling, it's a request, a polite demand,
just as is the Lord's prayer and other famous spellings.


Yeah we all get to that point eventually. With early manifestation its like your bowing down to the universe, and in great humbleness asking that your request may be looked at, without any attachment to it actually happening. Later you just meld/requst to the universe asking that something happen and it does. However I would think that for anyone who was new to the whole manifestation scene, that this would not work. As most likely they would be asking their mind for the request, and the mind would happily play along, and no manifestation would ever happen. (Another major thing that can happen with manifestation, belive me. heh)

Quote:
You build the request and then you put foward the request by releasing it or handing it over
and if you have the correct communication with your qualities and your creator,
you'll have it as you are.

And there is no time frame when it comes to prayers.

Just like some people believe you have to do certain things in order for a spell to come true,
some believe there are specific time frames they have to wait for their prayers to come true.

Here is what I say of that - You are what you believe.


Exactly. And if you belive that the manifestation is going to take a week, or that you need to write it down on paper; it is so. Undoing a belief such as this is tricky. Almost as tricky as convincing yourself that there is no gravity, and thus flight is possible.

Quote:
If you believe you have to go through a certain process in order for something to happen,
most likely that's what you're going to have to do.


Yep.

Quote:
However, there are some things for which you have to wait, or not so much wait for, just not interfere with in the way of magic, like when it comes to situations with other people.

We have no right to impose a spell upon another person without their consent.


I'd have to say this is a perspective. Its bad karma to impose your will on another. Thats why such things come to the catagory of black magic, and there is backlash. You have the right to do so if you wish, as this here is a plain of free will, but just know there are going to be consequences. And the mundanes (Those with no realized psychic ability, or no psychic potential) do have protectorates that will come down hard on you.

Quote:
Just be careful because if you think of imposing a spell upon another
person then you are not listening to your soul's desires,
you would be listening to the wants of your false mind, the illusions.


Generally the best way to get around permission, is to ask the higher-self of the person if you have permission to work on them. I'd recommend doing this always if you can't get the specific permission of the person. (I.E. a baby that can't speak, a person in a coma, long distance healing) And if the answer is No, don't go forward with it.

Quote:
Pray for your needs and the needs of others and you shall have no wants.

Be aware of what's happening, inside and outside, it's the same.


Best wishes,

excwan.


I hope I haven't come across as cutting. I do have a tendency to be blunt, and direct. I saw that I agreed with the majority of your thread, but there were some things that I disagreed with, and felt I needed to add an additional opinion.

May you find what you seek.

Zygos
Back to top

 

Click here to see amazing video testimonials of the Power of the Manifestation Master. Manifest all your desires. Click HERE!!!

 

excwan



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Zygos.

You were blunt but what's the point in not being? Honesty. Truth. It's good.


excwan said -
"Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.
Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is."

Zygos said-
"No, not really. Perhaps the end result could be seen as the same. But generally there isn't one big method of doing it. And not all ways work for everyone. "

excwan replies-
I agree. What I mean by 'it's not how it actually works that's different' is what you say with 'there isn't one big method of doing it.'
There are many different methods for doing it, but the underlying process of all the different methods is the same.
The different interpretations of that process = the different methods.

excwan said-
"When you get dressed you don't say;
"Right clothes I'm gonna put you on." Well I don't,
most of the time anyway.
Sometimes I don't even look at my clothes,
I know they're there and I know what I'm gonna do with them and I do it."

Zygos said-
"Actually one can get dressed in many ways. Do you strip and put on socks first and work your way up. Is underwear your first priority, or do you wear underwear at all. Most people have ritual in what they do. And I think I know what your getting at. But for most (Myself included) if you are to say that the ritual is meaningless, then you would find yourself not dressed."

excwan replies-
Good point, but mine is not that ritual is useless.
What I'm describing with the words;
"I know they're there and I know what I'm gonna do with them and I do it"
is the process of manifestation, not the actions or ritual that are used to engage the process of manifestation.
Consciousness-Intention-Action.

excwan said-
"That is an exact example of what I mean by communication.
A direct link between mind and body that allows your soul to create it's desire. "

Zygos said-
"The mind isn't the only thing that creates manifestation. Most manifestation is subconscious. That thing that people are always taking about when you create your own reality. Yes manifestation from the form of doing it consciously can be easy, the hard is combatting/understanding the part of your own body subconsciously going against your mainfestations. (Generally due to fear, or programming). "

excwan replies-
Yes. The mind is not the only thing that creates manifestations. Actually, from what I have learned, the mind can only help to manifest through communicating with the body and soul, otherwise it can only manifest things within the mind itself.
What I mean by;
"A direct link between mind and body that allows your soul to create it's desire. "
is that through understanding your mind and body, like you've mentioned above, you can acheive and maintain a healthy communication between the two, this in turn allows your soul to communiate and flow with them in a much easier and healthier manner, which in turn allows for more effective and instant manifestations of your real desires, so long as you stay aware of what's going on.

excwan said-
"When you hear that your soul is communicating, you will either
choose to listen to it or you will choose to not listen to it,
and you will use your mind to make this desicion."

Zygos said-
"A lot of people have to learn what the voice of their soul sounds like that, over what the voice of their body or ego sounds like. So its not always as much that they are ignoring that voice; (Though many of us do) but more so that they haven't learned how to distinguish the voice of their soul from everything else. "

excwan replies-
Exactly. That aswell.

excwan said-
"Hearing your soul and listening to it are different things.
Hearing it is like hearing the phone ring or seeing the light beam on your uniphone.
Listening to it is like answering the call to see what the person on the other end of it has to say."

Zygos said-
"*laughs* yes, however the soul can be very criptic in its lessons. For me personally I remember my soul chanting to me over and over "Relax your mind, relax your body, relax your soul". That was the fullness of the instructions, nothing else, no questions answered, just the phrase repeated over and over again. It took me a good part of 2 years to work out how to do that.
So again don't oversimplify the soul generally doesn't give you simple requests such as turn down the heat or, don't eat that ham sandwich."

excwan replies-
Yes, true. The soul can be very cryptic in it's lessons especially because it can communicate in ways which we have to learn how to understand.
Also, it can be very obvious with what it's communicating, an example of which is; "Relax your mind, relax your body, relax your soul."
Having said that, such simple messages can be lessons which are very hard to learn.
I really like that message by the way.
Sitting and listening to your soul is a part of it. You can also listen to your soul by being aware of what is happening around you.
An example of this is; for a time I was leaving half bottles of milk in my fridge to go off regularly even though I fully intended to drink them. I wondered why. I stayed aware of my situation and continued to wonder why, then a short while later I found out. For a few years I've been guided to give up certain foods because as I found out, I can get more of the same nutrients from other more natural and more bountiful sources. It was the same for milk. So, I stopped drinking milk and have enjoyed the benefits of getting healthier calcium from healthier sources, such as dark leafy vegetables. This works well for me because of the other changes in my diet.
There are various ways of listening to your soul.
So, what you thought was an oversimplification of the soul is not a description of the soul, it is a description of the difference between hearing it and listening to it.

excwan said-
"When you listen to your soul, which when I do I feel is like a bubble inside me
floating me to places where I should be,
when you listen to your soul and you don't interfere with it's communicated content by not allowing your mind
to wander any useless programmes or thoughts through it,
then you allow a direct pathway to open up between your soul, through your mind, and into your body."

Zygos said-
"Yes true, however unless your a monk on a high mountain top, generally your not in a place whereas you can easily go into that state. "

excwan replies-
You are what you believe.

excwan said-
"You can then use your body to act out the desire."

Zygos said-
"If you know what the desire actually wants. Again IME the soul is cryptic."

excwan replies-
Don't try to get information in a way that you already know how to understand, your soul may not give it to you in that format.
FEEL it.
Don't try to convert it all into definite words like looking through a dictionary, learn how to understand the symbols, visuals, sounds, non-usual-sensory information/knowledge. FEEl it. Trust the feelings.

excwan said-
"This may simply be moving to be in the right place at the right time
and if you stay awake you'll find out why you're there, or
it may be something a little more unexplainably creative.
Whichever, the process always is the same.
I used to use drawings, writings, a number of different avenues to spell my reality,
but then I realized;
"What if I don't have those things when I need them?
There must be a way of doing the same without all these things."

Zygos said-
"I would say that no, maybe you didn't need them at this latter point. However generally when you first do manifestation you have a ritual.
Because lets face it, in this reality whereas we all live in; manifestation isn't something that fits in. It generally goes into the catagory of "rare miraculous". And when your first doing it, simply asking for something generally won't work because your mind will get in the way and say "This is stupid!".
However with ritual the mind won't get in the way so much. Thats why prayer works so often, because the mind doesn't get in the way.
Its like that saying ""you have to crawl before you can walk". When you first do manifestation consciously it generally has to be baby steps. And for most its as above, writing it down and burning it, creating a circle and speaking it in mantra. Later on, I agree you don't do those things anymore.
But don't invalidate your previous ritual, as being unnecessary back then just because you don't need thus ritual now. "

excwan replies-
I agree with a lot of what you say here.
Yes, as a person progresses, ritual and the like becomes less evident when manifesting, due to new understandings.
I didn't invalidate any previous rituals, I mentioned a new understanding.
One that says we don't need rituals or mantra.
What I didn't mention and thanks for you doing so, is in order to get to that personal understanding, rituals and the like are a very effective method for acheiving that state where you don't need them.
Mine were very essential to acheiving the active understandings I hold now as they enforced and made clear the processes behind what I was doing.

Zygos said-
"Yeah we all get to that point eventually. With early manifestation its like your bowing down to the universe, and in great humbleness asking that your request may be looked at, without any attachment to it actually happening. Later you just meld/requst to the universe asking that something happen and it does. However I would think that for anyone who was new to the whole manifestation scene, that this would not work. As most likely they would be asking their mind for the request, and the mind would happily play along, and no manifestation would ever happen. (Another major thing that can happen with manifestation, belive me. heh)"

excwan replies-
My path to this point was tough and very very long. But now I love it.
I agree with what you say for new-comers to the scene and I have another thing to add.
Asking. If you ask- 'Can I have?' even if it is to God/Uni-Multiverse/whoever the big cheese is, it will return amplified, as an amplified 'Can I have?' and you shall want it more, instead of having.
If you put in a request-a polite demand/affirmation, then it shall return an amplified polite demand, and you shall have.
The thing with this is you can have for what you wish, but this phrase pops to mind; 'True success comes when your personal interests are linked with the common good.'
If you are one with your path then all your wants and desires shall be satisfied anyway.
However, some people are here to learn what it's like to live without what they truely desire.

excwan said-
"However, there are some things for which you have to wait, or not so much wait for, just not interfere with in the way of magic, like when it comes to situations with other people.
We have no right to impose a spell upon another person without their consent."

Zygos said-
"I'd have to say this is a perspective. Its bad karma to impose your will on another. Thats why such things come to the catagory of black magic, and there is backlash. You have the right to do so if you wish, as this here is a plain of free will, but just know there are going to be consequences. And the mundanes (Those with no realized psychic ability, or no psychic potential) do have protectorates that will come down hard on you."

excwan replies-
Thank you.
That's true.

excwan said-
"Just be careful because if you think of imposing a spell upon another
person then you are not listening to your soul's desires,
you would be listening to the wants of your false mind, the illusions."

Zygos said-
"Generally the best way to get around permission, is to ask the higher-self of the person if you have permission to work on them. I'd recommend doing this always if you can't get the specific permission of the person. (I.E. a baby that can't speak, a person in a coma, long distance healing) And if the answer is No, don't go forward with it. "

excwan replies-
"To 'get around' permission?
If you mean to 'acheive permission' then asking the higher-self of the person is one way which can be seen as acceptable.
I suppose that's a matter of preferrence.

Zygos said-
"I hope I haven't come across as cutting. I do have a tendency to be blunt, and direct. I saw that I agreed with the majority of your thread, but there were some things that I disagreed with, and felt I needed to add an additional opinion. "

excwan replies-
Thank you for your reply. I also have a tendency to come accross as direct. It's no problem though coz it's the truth.

Zygos said-
"May you find what you seek. "

excwan replies-
What you seek isn't always what you find. Hee Hee.

All the best,

excwan.
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RemoteControl



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: A. Communication. Reply with quote

Zygos wrote:
Hmmm, I'll have to do one of these. Below...

excwan wrote:
Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.

Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is.


No, not really. Perhaps the end result could be seen as the same. But generally there isn't one big method of doing it. And not all ways work for everyone.



It is all the same. It may appear different to a foolish person, but it is all the same. Just as a math problem may have many seemingly different methods for arriving at the same answer, all methods do exactly the samething, but our intellect differentiates between them.

Here is how it works. It's energy. The energy of the desire. When the energy of the desire is high enough, a desire manifests. As Physics states, like energy attracts like energy.

This explains how devices like wishing machines work, they simply amplify the energy allowing the desire to easily manifest.

Attachment to a desire will prevent the desire from manifesting since attachment is a contradicting vibration (producing mixed results).

That's all there is to it, simply identify your desire clearly (the exact vibration), then focus on your desire (amplifying the energy of the desire), then have no vibrations which contradict your desire (letting go).
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Zygos



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

excwan wrote:
Thanks Zygos.

You were blunt but what's the point in not being? Honesty. Truth. It's good.


Yeah, just one of those...ah...disclaimers. I've had people get upset over my bluntness. Blame it on being an Aquarius, with my 3 major signs (Sun Moon, and Rising all being fixed)

Quote:

excwan said -
"Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.
Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is."

Zygos said-
"No, not really. Perhaps the end result could be seen as the same. But generally there isn't one big method of doing it. And not all ways work for everyone. "

excwan replies-
I agree. What I mean by 'it's not how it actually works that's different' is what you say with 'there isn't one big method of doing it.'
There are many different methods for doing it, but the underlying process of all the different methods is the same.
The different interpretations of that process = the different methods.


Hmmm, well I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. If you mean the end result isn't different yes...but the whole process being the same...well I don't know. I only know my own way so I don't really know if your way for example processes in the same way or not. Me thinks thats something to ponder on.

Quote:
excwan said-
"When you get dressed you don't say;
"Right clothes I'm gonna put you on." Well I don't,
most of the time anyway.
Sometimes I don't even look at my clothes,
I know they're there and I know what I'm gonna do with them and I do it."

Zygos said-
"Actually one can get dressed in many ways. Do you strip and put on socks first and work your way up. Is underwear your first priority, or do you wear underwear at all. Most people have ritual in what they do. And I think I know what your getting at. But for most (Myself included) if you are to say that the ritual is meaningless, then you would find yourself not dressed."

excwan replies-
Good point, but mine is not that ritual is useless.
What I'm describing with the words;
"I know they're there and I know what I'm gonna do with them and I do it"


Ok, well no matter how you go about it you will have some sort of ritual, its like when you walk a mile, you have to start with a step and you have to end with a step, and you may know exactly how to take all those steps. You may know exactly what to do, but in the end to get from start to finish you still have to walk. And knowing what and how to walk doesn't change the fact that unless you know how to teleport, that walking is just a fact of life.

The same is true with manifestation, unless we come to a realization where we have mastered all the effects and counter effects, so all we have to do is think and it will be, there will always be some sort of process, even if its as simple as connecting, stating the request and letting it happen. That is pretty much no different from those who are just starting, who grab a piece of paper write down a request, and stick in on their refreigerator/bathroom mirror so they can subconsciously read it every day till it manifests. ...It is now that I realize that there is a good chance we are saying same exact thing, just different words. :)

Quote:
is the process of manifestation, not the actions or ritual that are used to engage the process of manifestation.
Consciousness-Intention-Action.


Hmmm mine is similar Energy + imagination + intention = reality.

Quote:
excwan said-
"That is an exact example of what I mean by communication.
A direct link between mind and body that allows your soul to create it's desire. "

Zygos said-
"The mind isn't the only thing that creates manifestation. Most manifestation is subconscious. That thing that people are always taking about when you create your own reality. Yes manifestation from the form of doing it consciously can be easy, the hard is combatting/understanding the part of your own body subconsciously going against your mainfestations. (Generally due to fear, or programming). "

excwan replies-
Yes. The mind is not the only thing that creates manifestations. Actually, from what I have learned, the mind can only help to manifest through communicating with the body and soul, otherwise it can only manifest things within the mind itself.
What I mean by;
"A direct link between mind and body that allows your soul to create it's desire. "
is that through understanding your mind and body, like you've mentioned above, you can acheive and maintain a healthy communication between the two, this in turn allows your soul to communiate and flow with them in a much easier and healthier manner, which in turn allows for more effective and instant manifestations of your real desires, so long as you stay aware of what's going on.

excwan said-
"When you hear that your soul is communicating, you will either
choose to listen to it or you will choose to not listen to it,
and you will use your mind to make this desicion."

Zygos said-
"A lot of people have to learn what the voice of their soul sounds like that, over what the voice of their body or ego sounds like. So its not always as much that they are ignoring that voice; (Though many of us do) but more so that they haven't learned how to distinguish the voice of their soul from everything else. "

excwan replies-
Exactly. That aswell.

excwan said-
"Hearing your soul and listening to it are different things.
Hearing it is like hearing the phone ring or seeing the light beam on your uniphone.
Listening to it is like answering the call to see what the person on the other end of it has to say."

Zygos said-
"*laughs* yes, however the soul can be very criptic in its lessons. For me personally I remember my soul chanting to me over and over "Relax your mind, relax your body, relax your soul". That was the fullness of the instructions; nothing else, no questions answered, just the phrase repeated over and over again. It took me a good part of 2 years to work out how to do that.

So again don't oversimplify the soul generally doesn't give you simple requests such as turn down the heat or, don't eat that ham sandwich."

excwan replies-
Yes, true. The soul can be very cryptic in it's lessons especially because it can communicate in ways which we have to learn how to understand.
Also, it can be very obvious with what it's communicating, an example of which is; "Relax your mind, relax your body, relax your soul."
Having said that, such simple messages can be lessons which are very hard to learn.
I really like that message by the way.
Sitting and listening to your soul is a part of it. You can also listen to your soul by being aware of what is happening around you.


Good point!

Quote:

An example of this is; for a time I was leaving half bottles of milk in my fridge to go off regularly even though I fully intended to drink them. I wondered why. I stayed aware of my situation and continued to wonder why, then a short while later I found out. For a few years I've been guided to give up certain foods because as I found out, I can get more of the same nutrients from other more natural and more bountiful sources. It was the same for milk. So, I stopped drinking milk and have enjoyed the benefits of getting healthier calcium from healthier sources, such as dark leafy vegetables. This works well for me because of the other changes in my diet.
There are various ways of listening to your soul.
So, what you thought was an oversimplification of the soul is not a description of the soul, it is a description of the difference between hearing it and listening to it.


Very Very good point. Thanks for Clarifying.

[quote]excwan said-
"When you listen to your soul, which when I do I feel is like a bubble inside me
floating me to places where I should be,
when you listen to your soul and you don't interfere with it's communicated content by not allowing your mind
to wander any useless programmes or thoughts through it,
then you allow a direct pathway to open up between your soul, through your mind, and into your body."

Zygos said-
"Yes true, however unless your a monk on a high mountain top, generally your not in a place whereas you can easily go into that state. "

excwan replies-
You are what you believe.[quote]

Sorry that may have gone over my head. "You are what you belive"...ok. All I know from my own experience. And yes I know others who don't have this problem, maybe your one of them. But often when my soul asks me to do something. That something is often something I don't want to do.(Or worse something I don't want to hear) So I ignore it. Sometimes its something crazy, and maybe its just that I have a problem with trusting in the process sometimes. So I may feel the bubble, but not be in the place to recongize it due to my ignoring its existance.

But I guess you do have a point, if I belive myself not being able to hear it, I'll manifest it as so, and not be able to hear it. :)

Quote:

excwan said-
"You can then use your body to act out the desire."

Zygos said-
"If you know what the desire actually wants. Again IME the soul is cryptic."

excwan replies-
Don't try to get information in a way that you already know how to understand, your soul may not give it to you in that format.
FEEL it.
Don't try to convert it all into definite words like looking through a dictionary, learn how to understand the symbols, visuals, sounds, non-usual-sensory information/knowledge. FEEl it. Trust the feelings.


Oh no its that feel word again. LOL. I'm generally an unemotional and unfeeling sort of person. And generally go by intuition and not feeling. (Yes to an unemotional Aquarius feelings, and intuiton different things. We're weird). I guess next time I'm in a dilema I'll try that feel thing and be pleasantly surpirsed when it works.

Quote:
excwan said-
"This may simply be moving to be in the right place at the right time
and if you stay awake you'll find out why you're there, or
it may be something a little more unexplainably creative.
Whichever, the process always is the same.
I used to use drawings, writings, a number of different avenues to spell my reality,
but then I realized;
"What if I don't have those things when I need them?
There must be a way of doing the same without all these things."

Zygos said-
"I would say that no, maybe you didn't need them at this latter point. However generally when you first do manifestation you have a ritual.
Because lets face it, in this reality whereas we all live in; manifestation isn't something that fits in. It generally goes into the catagory of "rare miraculous". And when your first doing it, simply asking for something generally won't work because your mind will get in the way and say "This is stupid!".
However with ritual the mind won't get in the way so much. Thats why prayer works so often, because the mind doesn't get in the way.
Its like that saying ""you have to crawl before you can walk". When you first do manifestation consciously it generally has to be baby steps. And for most its as above, writing it down and burning it, creating a circle and speaking it in mantra. Later on, I agree you don't do those things anymore.
But don't invalidate your previous ritual, as being unnecessary back then just because you don't need thus ritual now. "

excwan replies-
I agree with a lot of what you say here.
Yes, as a person progresses, ritual and the like becomes less evident when manifesting, due to new understandings.
I didn't invalidate any previous rituals, I mentioned a new understanding.
One that says we don't need rituals or mantra.
What I didn't mention and thanks for you doing so, is in order to get to that personal understanding, rituals and the like are a very effective method for acheiving that state where you don't need them.
Mine were very essential to acheiving the active understandings I hold now as they enforced and made clear the processes behind what I was doing.


Ok, I mainly wanted to make sure of this. As spirit has pointed out to me again and again, where as I've said "Why did I waste all that time, when I could have been doing it this quicker way" and they reply, "the quicker way wouldn't have worked then. It only works now because you did it the slower way in the past. " IOW we graduated to this way. The other way was slower, but it was so because we needed it then, just like we can use this way now. :)

Quote:

Zygos said-
"Yeah we all get to that point eventually. With early manifestation its like your bowing down to the universe, and in great humbleness asking that your request may be looked at, without any attachment to it actually happening. Later you just meld/requst to the universe asking that something happen and it does. However I would think that for anyone who was new to the whole manifestation scene, that this would not work. As most likely they would be asking their mind for the request, and the mind would happily play along, and no manifestation would ever happen. (Another major thing that can happen with manifestation, belive me. heh)"

excwan replies-
My path to this point was tough and very very long. But now I love it.
I agree with what you say for new-comers to the scene and I have another thing to add.
Asking. If you ask- 'Can I have?' even if it is to God/Uni-Multiverse/whoever the big cheese is, it will return amplified, as an amplified 'Can I have?' and you shall want it more, instead of having.
If you put in a request-a polite demand/affirmation, then it shall return an amplified polite demand, and you shall have.
The thing with this is you can have for what you wish, but this phrase pops to mind; 'True success comes when your personal interests are linked with the common good.'
If you are one with your path then all your wants and desires shall be satisfied anyway.
However, some people are here to learn what it's like to live without what they truely desire.


Sad but true my friend.... but such is life.
Quote:

excwan said-
"However, there are some things for which you have to wait, or not so much wait for, just not interfere with in the way of magic, like when it comes to situations with other people.
We have no right to impose a spell upon another person without their consent."

Zygos said-
"I'd have to say this is a perspective. Its bad karma to impose your will on another. Thats why such things come to the catagory of black magic, and there is backlash. You have the right to do so if you wish, as this here is a plain of free will, but just know there are going to be consequences. And the mundanes (Those with no realized psychic ability, or no psychic potential) do have protectorates that will come down hard on you."

excwan replies-
Thank you.
That's true.

excwan said-
"Just be careful because if you think of imposing a spell upon another
person then you are not listening to your soul's desires,
you would be listening to the wants of your false mind, the illusions."

Zygos said-
"Generally the best way to get around permission, is to ask the higher-self of the person if you have permission to work on them. I'd recommend doing this always if you can't get the specific permission of the person. (I.E. a baby that can't speak, a person in a coma, long distance healing) And if the answer is No, don't go forward with it. "

excwan replies-
"To 'get around' permission?
If you mean to 'acheive permission' then asking the higher-self of the person is one way which can be seen as acceptable.
I suppose that's a matter of preferrence.


No I actually meant what I said. Often your dealing with someone who you have a strong feeling its good for, but if you were to ask them outright they would automatically say no, because either they have been indoctrinated to fear it, or your practicing some evil witchcraft thing.

Now if you ask them directly they say no, have to take it as no. But however if you ask their higherself, the part of themselves that understand everything. And you ask if its to their highest, good and if you have permission. You can often get around the ego in question.

I know some people have problems with this line of thought. But sometimes you need to do something that the ego would have conflict with, that the soul would not. And moreso be to the beings highest good.


Quote:
Zygos said-

"I hope I haven't come across as cutting. I do have a tendency to be blunt, and direct. I saw that I agreed with the majority of your thread, but there were some things that I disagreed with, and felt I needed to add an additional opinion. "

excwan replies-
Thank you for your reply. I also have a tendency to come accross as direct. It's no problem though coz it's the truth.

Zygos said-
"May you find what you seek. "

excwan replies-
What you seek isn't always what you find. Hee Hee.



I prefer "you may find what you seeked wasn't what you seeked for in the first place. LOL, gotta watch the wording of what you want for you may just get what you asked for instead of what you wanted. heh.

Example:

Me: Universe I want a brand new car with the keys in the ignition, running smoothly, no problems.

Universe: I hope you don't mind that its stolen.

Moral: Cover all your bases when manifesting...be specific.

All the best,

excwan.

You as well.

Zygos
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excwan



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant - I love talking to you!

We're covering some really good topics here and coming to realizations that we both can understand.

excwan said -
"Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.
Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is."
\/
Zygos said-
"No, not really. Perhaps the end result could be seen as the same. But generally there isn't one big method of doing it. And not all ways work for everyone. "
\/
excwan said-
I agree. What I mean by 'it's not how it actually works that's different' is what you say with 'there isn't one big method of doing it.'
There are many different methods for doing it, but the underlying process of all the different methods is the same.
The different interpretations of that process = the different methods.
\/
Zygos said-
"Hmmm, well I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. If you mean the end result isn't different yes...but the whole process being the same...well I don't know. I only know my own way so I don't really know if your way for example processes in the same way or not. Me thinks thats something to ponder on. "
\/
excwan replies-
You have an undestanding of the process. You described it a bit later on in your reply to;
"the process of manifestation. Consciousness-Intention-Action."
when you said;
"mine is similar Energy + imagination + intention = reality."
This is my more in-depth explaination;
Consciousness=being aware of your situation and the change you desire.
Intention=your chosen path for changing your situation, eg-'I intend to...'
Action= acting out your intention-making it real/true.
There are probally loads of different ways for explaining this underlying and unifying process behind the different methods, but nevermind those coz you know what I'm talking about.
\/
Zygos said-
"The same is true with manifestation, unless we come to a realization where we have mastered all the effects and counter effects, so all we have to do is think and it will be, there will always be some sort of process, even if its as simple as connecting, stating the request and letting it happen. That is pretty much no different from those who are just starting, who grab a piece of paper write down a request, and stick in on their refreigerator/bathroom mirror so they can subconsciously read it every day till it manifests. ...It is now that I realize that there is a good chance we are saying same exact thing, just different words. Smile"
\/
excwan replies-
See!

Zygos said-
"You may know exactly what to do, but in the end to get from start to finish you still have to walk. And knowing what and how to walk doesn't change the fact that unless you know how to teleport, that walking is just a fact of life."
\/
excwan replies-
Ha HA! That's brilliant. That quote's probally gonna end up in a 'how to-for life' manual.

excwan said-
"When you listen to your soul, which when I do I feel is like a bubble inside me
floating me to places where I should be,
when you listen to your soul and you don't interfere with it's communicated content by not allowing your mind
to wander any useless programmes or thoughts through it,
then you allow a direct pathway to open up between your soul, through your mind, and into your body."
\/
Zygos said-
"Yes true, however unless your a monk on a high mountain top, generally your not in a place whereas you can easily go into that state. "
\/
excwan said-
You are what you believe.[quote]
\/
Zygos said-
"Sorry that may have gone over my head. "You are what you belive"...ok. All I know from my own experience. And yes I know others who don't have this problem, maybe your one of them. But often when my soul asks me to do something. That something is often something I don't want to do.(Or worse something I don't want to hear) So I ignore it. Sometimes its something crazy, and maybe its just that I have a problem with trusting in the process sometimes. So I may feel the bubble, but not be in the place to recongize it due to my ignoring its existance.
But I guess you do have a point, if I belive myself not being able to hear it, I'll manifest it as so, and not be able to hear it. Smile "
\/
excwan replies-
We're all on a path. Part of that is us talking to each other, and I appreciate that coz I'm learning a lot from this too. Trusting the process is something, an experience, I trust it but even so, it still astounds me, makes me still and I question if it is real, it is, but still it amazes me. I guess that's part of our, or at least my, experience.

excwan said-
"Don't try to get information in a way that you already know how to understand, your soul may not give it to you in that format.
FEEL it.
Don't try to convert it all into definite words like looking through a dictionary, learn how to understand the symbols, visuals, sounds, non-usual-sensory information/knowledge. FEEl it. Trust the feelings. "
\/
Zygos said-
"Oh no its that feel word again. LOL. I'm generally an unemotional and unfeeling sort of person. And generally go by intuition and not feeling. (Yes to an unemotional Aquarius feelings, and intuiton different things. We're weird). I guess next time I'm in a dilema I'll try that feel thing and be pleasantly surpirsed when it works."
\/
excwan replies-"
Isn't intuition - feeling?

ps-I s'pose you're a bit scared of feelings? If so, well done for-
"I guess next time I'm in a dilema I'll try that feel thing and be pleasantly surpirsed when it works."
Even if not, well done.

Zygos said-
"Ok, I mainly wanted to make sure of this. As spirit has pointed out to me again and again, where as I've said "Why did I waste all that time, when I could have been doing it this quicker way" and they reply, "the quicker way wouldn't have worked then. It only works now because you did it the slower way in the past. " IOW we graduated to this way. The other way was slower, but it was so because we needed it then, just like we can use this way now. Smile
"
\/
excwan replies-
Yep.

excwan said-
"To 'get around' permission?
If you mean to 'acheive permission' then asking the higher-self of the person is one way which can be seen as acceptable.
I suppose that's a matter of preferrence. "
\/
Zygos said-
"No I actually meant what I said. Often your dealing with someone who you have a strong feeling its good for, but if you were to ask them outright they would automatically say no, because either they have been indoctrinated to fear it, or your practicing some evil witchcraft thing.
Now if you ask them directly they say no, have to take it as no. But however if you ask their higherself, the part of themselves that understand everything. And you ask if its to their highest, good and if you have permission. You can often get around the ego in question.
I know some people have problems with this line of thought. But sometimes you need to do something that the ego would have conflict with, that the soul would not. And moreso be to the beings highest good. "
\/
excwan replies-
I see your point. I feel my intuition says it's ok.
There's not much more for me to say about that...
'getting around the ego' was the bit that clinched it for me.
Ah ha, look! I just noticed, you said 'feeling';
"Often your dealing with someone who you have a strong feeling its good for," See, you're doing it already.
Nice one! Very Happy

On this good note, chao!
Wink
excwan.
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Zygos



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: A. Communication. Reply with quote

Quote:
It is all the same. It may appear different to a foolish person, but it is all the same.


I would say only a foolish person would assume its all the same. Unless you can say you have experienced every single form of manifestation, how can you absolutely know?

It may innate to some, while to others its something to be learned. Also if you will the changes, versus allowing the changes, that seems to be different, but both are change, and both could be characterised as manifestation.

With something based on creativity, I don't see how it can be made so mundane as to be compared with human math, or science, as its generally something the ego can't understand.

But hey just my opinion.

Zygos
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Zygos



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Brilliant - I love talking to you!


This is really fun I agree. Generally don't get to talk about the nuonances of this stuff with a fun mind. heh.
Quote:

We're covering some really good topics here and coming to realizations that we both can understand.

excwan said -
"Ya know, manifestation, it's all the same.
Like religions, it's not the system or information or how it actually works that's different,
it's how it's interpreted that is."
\/
Zygos said-
"No, not really. Perhaps the end result could be seen as the same. But generally there isn't one big method of doing it. And not all ways work for everyone. "
\/
excwan said-
I agree. What I mean by 'it's not how it actually works that's different' is what you say with 'there isn't one big method of doing it.'
There are many different methods for doing it, but the underlying process of all the different methods is the same.
The different interpretations of that process = the different methods.
\/
Zygos said-
"Hmmm, well I'm not sure if I agree with that or not. If you mean the end result isn't different yes...but the whole process being the same...well I don't know. I only know my own way so I don't really know if your way for example processes in the same way or not. Me thinks thats something to ponder on. "
\/
excwan replies-
You have an undestanding of the process. You described it a bit later on in your reply to;
"the process of manifestation. Consciousness-Intention-Action."
when you said;
"mine is similar Energy + imagination + intention = reality."
This is my more in-depth explaination;
Consciousness=being aware of your situation and the change you desire.
Intention=your chosen path for changing your situation, eg-'I intend to...'
Action= acting out your intention-making it real/true.
There are probally loads of different ways for explaining this underlying and unifying process behind the different methods, but nevermind those coz you know what I'm talking about.


Hmmm, interesting. I have a slight difference with action. (Though this could explain some issues in my own life) I generally find the end result just happens, with no anything from me. (In fact I find if I try to make it happen, it screws it up, or I end up somehow creating a counter manifestation, or the universe just doesn't show up, because I choose to make it happen, instead of allowing it to.)

Nice clear way of stating it though. Smile Seems our way to manifest are definitely similar.
Quote:
\/
Zygos said-
"The same is true with manifestation, unless we come to a realization where we have mastered all the effects and counter effects, so all we have to do is think and it will be, there will always be some sort of process, even if its as simple as connecting, stating the request and letting it happen. That is pretty much no different from those who are just starting, who grab a piece of paper write down a request, and stick in on their refreigerator/bathroom mirror so they can subconsciously read it every day till it manifests. ...It is now that I realize that there is a good chance we are saying same exact thing, just different words. Smile"
\/
excwan replies-
See!

Zygos said-
"You may know exactly what to do, but in the end to get from start to finish you still have to walk. And knowing what and how to walk doesn't change the fact that unless you know how to teleport, that walking is just a fact of life."
\/
excwan replies-
Ha HA! That's brilliant. That quote's probally gonna end up in a 'how to-for life' manual.


Well in my real life, I don't own a car (By choice due to the fact that I've got about 2000/20 vision in one of my eyes, I can get a drivers licence but I prefer not to have the stress of it.) so in turn I walk everywhere, and its something I've thought about before, unless I can teleport where I'm going (Something I've worked at from time to time, but never quite figured out how to make remote viewing into physical existance, (though I know its possible.)) They say the best quotes are the ones drawn from real life experience.
Quote:

excwan said-
"When you listen to your soul, which when I do I feel is like a bubble inside me
floating me to places where I should be,
when you listen to your soul and you don't interfere with it's communicated content by not allowing your mind
to wander any useless programmes or thoughts through it,
then you allow a direct pathway to open up between your soul, through your mind, and into your body."
\/
Zygos said-
"Yes true, however unless your a monk on a high mountain top, generally your not in a place whereas you can easily go into that state. "
\/
excwan said-
You are what you believe.
\/
Zygos said-
"Sorry that may have gone over my head. "You are what you belive"...ok. All I know from my own experience. And yes I know others who don't have this problem, maybe your one of them. But often when my soul asks me to do something. That something is often something I don't want to do.(Or worse something I don't want to hear) So I ignore it. Sometimes its something crazy, and maybe its just that I have a problem with trusting in the process sometimes. So I may feel the bubble, but not be in the place to recongize it due to my ignoring its existance.
But I guess you do have a point, if I belive myself not being able to hear it, I'll manifest it as so, and not be able to hear it. Smile "
\/
excwan replies-
We're all on a path. Part of that is us talking to each other, and I appreciate that coz I'm learning a lot from this too. Trusting the process is something, an experience, I trust it but even so, it still astounds me, makes me still and I question if it is real, it is, but still it amazes me. I guess that's part of our, or at least my, experience.


Something I've laughed with a lot of people who consciously manifest.

Quote:

excwan said-
"Don't try to get information in a way that you already know how to understand, your soul may not give it to you in that format.
FEEL it.
Don't try to convert it all into definite words like looking through a dictionary, learn how to understand the symbols, visuals, sounds, non-usual-sensory information/knowledge. FEEl it. Trust the feelings. "
\/
Zygos said-
"Oh no its that feel word again. LOL. I'm generally an unemotional and unfeeling sort of person. And generally go by intuition and not feeling. (Yes to an unemotional Aquarius feelings, and intuiton different things. We're weird). I guess next time I'm in a dilema I'll try that feel thing and be pleasantly surpirsed when it works."
\/
excwan replies-"
Isn't intuition - feeling?


Didn't I say I was weird, and no I'm not scared of feelings, as your paragraph below, its more like I'm detached of my feelings. They say that the aquarian experiences emotion more strongly than any other sign (Except maybe a scorpio) but the way we've learned to deal with it, as not to hurt ourselves or others is to be detached from the emotion, and let it wash off us like water off a ducks back.

And ironically I'm an empath. But yeah intuition to me is just a knowing of stuff. Knowing it so well that you would give your life for the truth it contains. Feeling...is similar but it seems to have a different quality, sometimes its more like guessing. I can/have experienced both, but I generally keep myself more into intuition than feeling.

ps-I s'pose you're a bit scared of feelings? If so, well done for-
"I guess next time I'm in a dilema I'll try that feel thing and be pleasantly surpirsed when it works."
Even if not, well done.

Quote:

Zygos said-
"Ok, I mainly wanted to make sure of this. As spirit has pointed out to me again and again, where as I've said "Why did I waste all that time, when I could have been doing it this quicker way" and they reply, "the quicker way wouldn't have worked then. It only works now because you did it the slower way in the past. " IOW we graduated to this way. The other way was slower, but it was so because we needed it then, just like we can use this way now. Smile
"
\/
excwan replies-
Yep.

excwan said-
"To 'get around' permission?
If you mean to 'acheive permission' then asking the higher-self of the person is one way which can be seen as acceptable.
I suppose that's a matter of preferrence. "
\/
Zygos said-
"No I actually meant what I said. Often your dealing with someone who you have a strong feeling its good for, but if you were to ask them outright they would automatically say no, because either they have been indoctrinated to fear it, or your practicing some evil witchcraft thing.
Now if you ask them directly they say no, have to take it as no. But however if you ask their higherself, the part of themselves that understand everything. And you ask if its to their highest, good and if you have permission. You can often get around the ego in question.
I know some people have problems with this line of thought. But sometimes you need to do something that the ego would have conflict with, that the soul would not. And moreso be to the beings highest good. "
\/
excwan replies-
I see your point. I feel my intuition says it's ok.
There's not much more for me to say about that...
'getting around the ego' was the bit that clinched it for me.
Ah ha, look! I just noticed, you said 'feeling';
"Often your dealing with someone who you have a strong feeling its good for," See, you're doing it already.
Nice one! Very Happy


Yeah you got me. LOL. I deal with feelings, I just try not to let them rule me. heh.

On this good note, chao!
Wink
excwan.

I like the \/ things BTW...till next we meet.
Zygos
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RemoteControl



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: A. Communication. Reply with quote

Zygos wrote:
Quote:
It is all the same. It may appear different to a foolish person, but it is all the same.


I would say only a foolish person would assume its all the same. Unless you can say you have experienced every single form of manifestation, how can you absolutely know?

It may innate to some, while to others its something to be learned. Also if you will the changes, versus allowing the changes, that seems to be different, but both are change, and both could be characterised as manifestation.

With something based on creativity, I don't see how it can be made so mundane as to be compared with human math, or science, as its generally something the ego can't understand.

But hey just my opinion.

Zygos


Every single form of manifestation does the samething, just in different forms. There is a science and math behind it.

When the energy of your desire is high enough your desire must manifest.Different methods allow people to do this SAMEthing. Some methods working better for others. But all methods work on that profound truth.

How can you absolutely know? Well you can't. For instance, x+y = 1, there are infinite number of numbers that can add up to 1, but how can you ABSOLUTELY know that?

I say that a wise person can see an absolute truth dwelling in many things, where as a foolish person will consider these many things to completely different from each other.
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excwan



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Zygos.

Thanks again. I have a query- what does BTW mean?

Zygos said;
"It is all the same. It may appear different to a foolish person, but it is all the same."
Then Zygos said;
"I would say only a foolish person would assume its all the same. Unless you can say you have experienced every single form of manifestation, how can you absolutely know? "
\/
excwan replies;
With the first you seeem to seeing the core of all manifestation, with the second you seem to be thinking about it.
I had a teaching from a lovely lady just before I gave a reading in public last year, she said; 'The first is truth, the second is doubt.'
There are absolute truths, like love, attraction, and the rest. The core of manifestation is one of them. It is something I know through experience and insight. Even though I haven't experienced all the results manifestation has to offer, I know that the core is the same. Like attraction- what is attracted can change but the law is always there and does not differ. This is my experience.

Zygos said;
"This is really fun I agree. Generally don't get to talk about the nuonances of this stuff with a fun mind. heh."
\/
excwan replies;
Very Happy I enjoy this too.

excwan said;
"You have an undestanding of the process. You described it a bit later on in your reply to;
"the process of manifestation. Consciousness-Intention-Action."
when you said;
"mine is similar Energy + imagination + intention = reality."
This is my more in-depth explaination;
Consciousness=being aware of your situation and the change you desire.
Intention=your chosen path for changing your situation, eg-'I intend to...'
Action= acting out your intention-making it real/true.
There are probally loads of different ways for explaining this underlying and unifying process behind the different methods, but nevermind those coz you know what I'm talking about."
\/
Zygos said;
"Hmmm, interesting. I have a slight difference with action. (Though this could explain some issues in my own life) I generally find the end result just happens, with no anything from me. (In fact I find if I try to make it happen, it screws it up, or I end up somehow creating a counter manifestation, or the universe just doesn't show up, because I choose to make it happen, instead of allowing it to.)"
\/
excwan replies;
Yes, maybe, a more clear explaination of 'action' is 'inaction'. It is the bit were we release the intention, it's the action of releasing it, stating your request(polite demand), and then allowing God to make it true.
As I said in a previous statement, making it true yourself is futile and dangerous, releasing it to God is what I do now.
Thanks for clarifying that for me. Smile

Zygos said;
"Well in my real life, I don't own a car (By choice due to the fact that I've got about 2000/20 vision in one of my eyes, I can get a drivers licence but I prefer not to have the stress of it.) so in turn I walk everywhere, and its something I've thought about before, unless I can teleport where I'm going (Something I've worked at from time to time, but never quite figured out how to make remote viewing into physical existance, (though I know its possible.)) They say the best quotes are the ones drawn from real life experience."
\/
excwan replies;
I don't own or drive a car either. I walk everywhere like you, or catch the bus occasionally, or ride my push-bike. You know, even though teleportation is possible, and if you were adept at it, would you choose to walk? It's like a game, are you one to use cheats(short-cuts) and this is not nessecerally a bad thing, or do you play the game form start to finish without them, or do you enter all the cheats and then play the game from start to finish using that extra edge?
I have a question- do you know anything about the properties of light and it's affect on people or things? Think time-travel.

Regards,

excwan.
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Zygos



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dear Zygos.

Thanks again. I have a query- what does BTW mean?


Internet short hand for "By The Way". Just like IME is "In My Experience"
Quote:

Zygos said;
"It is all the same. It may appear different to a foolish person, but it is all the same."
Then Zygos said;
"I would say only a foolish person would assume its all the same. Unless you can say you have experienced every single form of manifestation, how can you absolutely know? "
\/
excwan replies;
With the first you seeem to seeing the core of all manifestation, with the second you seem to be thinking about it.
I had a teaching from a lovely lady just before I gave a reading in public last year, she said; 'The first is truth, the second is doubt.'
There are absolute truths, like love, attraction, and the rest. The core of manifestation is one of them. It is something I know through experience and insight. Even though I haven't experienced all the results manifestation has to offer, I know that the core is the same. Like attraction- what is attracted can change but the law is always there and does not differ. This is my experience.


Hmmm. I would say I don't belive in absoultes, but that would be a lie. I belive there are instead very few absoultes.

An old saying of mine, one that I channeled a long time ago is that "Life is both infintely simple, and complex". So yes I'm sure some will say all manifestation is the same, or that all love is the same. But thats looking at the simple. The complex would state that there are many forms of love, and many are different than the others.

Making absoultes generally makes the mind in stone, and doesn't leave room for flow of new ideas, or open mindedness. Lack of open minded can also halt growth. There have been many times in my life where as I was so sure that I knew the universe worked one way or another, that I would have shouted it out aloud. Only to meet someone, see someone, or experience something for myself that was contrary. And that it made me loose that assumption, and realize it wasn't necssarily so simple.

So I will continue to state for now, that not necessarily is all manifestation the same. It could be, but I don't know if it is or not. Others can assume; but I prefer to wait and see.
Quote:

Zygos said;
"This is really fun I agree. Generally don't get to talk about the nuonances of this stuff with a fun mind. heh."
\/
excwan replies;
Very Happy I enjoy this too.

excwan said;
"You have an undestanding of the process. You described it a bit later on in your reply to;
"the process of manifestation. Consciousness-Intention-Action."
when you said;
"mine is similar Energy + imagination + intention = reality."
This is my more in-depth explaination;
Consciousness=being aware of your situation and the change you desire.
Intention=your chosen path for changing your situation, eg-'I intend to...'
Action= acting out your intention-making it real/true.
There are probally loads of different ways for explaining this underlying and unifying process behind the different methods, but nevermind those coz you know what I'm talking about."
\/
Zygos said;
"Hmmm, interesting. I have a slight difference with action. (Though this could explain some issues in my own life) I generally find the end result just happens, with no anything from me. (In fact I find if I try to make it happen, it screws it up, or I end up somehow creating a counter manifestation, or the universe just doesn't show up, because I choose to make it happen, instead of allowing it to.)"
\/
excwan replies;
Yes, maybe, a more clear explaination of 'action' is 'inaction'. It is the bit were we release the intention, it's the action of releasing it, stating your request(polite demand), and then allowing God to make it true.
As I said in a previous statement, making it true yourself is futile and dangerous, releasing it to God is what I do now.
Thanks for clarifying that for me. Smile


More of that saying the same thing in different words stuff. Strange. Smile

Quote:

Zygos said;
"Well in my real life, I don't own a car (By choice due to the fact that I've got about 2000/20 vision in one of my eyes, I can get a drivers licence but I prefer not to have the stress of it.) so in turn I walk everywhere, and its something I've thought about before, unless I can teleport where I'm going (Something I've worked at from time to time, but never quite figured out how to make remote viewing into physical existance, (though I know its possible.)) They say the best quotes are the ones drawn from real life experience."
\/
excwan replies;
I don't own or drive a car either. I walk everywhere like you, or catch the bus occasionally, or ride my push-bike. You know, even though teleportation is possible, and if you were adept at it, would you choose to walk? It's like a game, are you one to use cheats(short-cuts) and this is not nessecerally a bad thing, or do you play the game form start to finish without them, or do you enter all the cheats and then play the game from start to finish using that extra edge?
I have a question- do you know anything about the properties of light and it's affect on people or things? Think time-travel.


Well when you have a 10 k (Or worse 10 mile) walk ahead of you because you don't want to pay for a taxi and all the busses are down for the night, then yes I've definitely thought it sure would be nice to just be there. Don't consider it a short cut, just a much more effective way to travel.

I probably will get hit by the spirit of an old physics professor by even going into this...but ok. Based on my experience time doesn't necessarily exist. And based on some of my channeling experience I also know that all of the universe can be cut up into sections known as dimensions, and that each of these dimensions are layed on top of each other seperated by vibration. So if you can change your vibrational level you can effect how time acts around you, because in some dimensions (For example the Fae) time doesn't exist. But I'm not quite sure what your question on light effecting people is about. Other than light is energy, and we are basically energy. Sorry mate you've lost me, and I've just rambled. Mind restating your question so its less vague? LOL.
Regards,

excwan.

Yep, till next our paths cross.

Zygos
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Zygos



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: A. Communication. Reply with quote

Quote:
Every single form of manifestation does the samething, just in different forms. There is a science and math behind it.


So you've experienced every single form? Well I can't say I have so until I have all the information we'll just have to politely agree to disagree.


Quote:
When the energy of your desire is high enough your desire must manifest.


Not always true. There can often be other forces going against your will. Some of them you may have choosen to come into play before this life. Some of them karma based, on lessons you have to learn. Some of them sub-conscious parts of you, wanting the negetive experience. Thriving on it, and acting against you.


Quote:
Different methods allow people to do this SAMEthing.


They may appear the same. But that doesn't mean they are the same.

Quote:
Some methods working better for others.


Ah, so how do you explain that. How do you explain the differences, why do they occur. What is it based on. What element is changing in the formula, that allows one person to manifest in one method, and another not to use that method but a completely different one.

And if perception is a form of manifestation, that means the values could change or the formula could change just based on a person willing it to do so. For example my current belief that not all manifestation is the same, could be creating a reality around myself that not all manifestation is the same, while your belief that all manifestation is the same could create a reality where it is. And neither of us would be wrong.

Quote:
But all methods work on that profound truth.


Truth is realitive based on the information present.

Quote:
How can you absolutely know? Well you can't. For instance, x+y = 1, there are infinite number of numbers that can add up to 1, but how can you ABSOLUTELY know that?


Yes, until you have all the facts, the only thing you can do is assume that x + y =1 . So your making an assumption, thats fine. But just because you choose to make that assumption, does not mean you have to push it down my throat, or anybody elses for that matter.

Quote:
I say that a wise person can see an absolute truth dwelling in many things, where as a foolish person will consider these many things to completely different from each other.


Thats fine. I think a wise person doesn't assume anything. But could just be a difference of perspective.

Zygos
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RemoteControl



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok cool, I'm not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat...just sharing my views Very Happy
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excwan



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, nice to see we have another aspect to this thread.
Welcome.

Zygos, thanks for BTW & IME. Now I understand your ramblings. HeeHee. Smile

Zygos said;
"Hmmm. I would say I don't belive in absoultes, but that would be a lie. I belive there are instead very few absoultes.
An old saying of mine, one that I channeled a long time ago is that "Life is both infintely simple, and complex". So yes I'm sure some will say all manifestation is the same, or that all love is the same. But thats looking at the simple. The complex would state that there are many forms of love, and many are different than the others."
\/
excwan replies;
Yep. This world seems to be one of contradictions and double meanings, dual beings and leaning viewings. IYKWIM. (iF yOU kNOW wHAT i mEAN)
This is what I say- 'The secrets are in the basics!'
Master, or become one with, the basics, and you are one with it all.

Zygos said;
"Making absoultes generally makes the mind in stone, and doesn't leave room for flow of new ideas, or open mindedness. Lack of open minded can also halt growth. There have been many times in my life where as I was so sure that I knew the universe worked one way or another, that I would have shouted it out aloud. Only to meet someone, see someone, or experience something for myself that was contrary. And that it made me loose that assumption, and realize it wasn't necssarily so simple."
\/
excwan replies;
True. I've just finished reading a book-(Illusions, Adventures of a reluctant messiah, by Richard Bach). It's full of teachings and wot-nots, then at the pivitol point it says- 'everything in this book may be wrong.'
Brilliant!

Zygos said;
"I probably will get hit by the spirit of an old physics professor by even going into this...but ok."
\/
excwan replies;
Do you protect yourself?

Zygos said;
"Based on my experience time doesn't necessarily exist. And based on some of my channeling experience I also know that all of the universe can be cut up into sections known as dimensions, and that each of these dimensions are layed on top of each other seperated by vibration. So if you can change your vibrational level you can effect how time acts around you, because in some dimensions (For example the Fae) time doesn't exist. But I'm not quite sure what your question on light effecting people is about. Other than light is energy, and we are basically energy. Sorry mate you've lost me, and I've just rambled. Mind restating your question so its less vague? LOL. "
\/
excwan replies;
Like the dual stuff we've been discussing, there is time and there isn't.
Like this world, some say it's illusion, which is true, but the mind has trouble accepting or rationalizing that statement. So, it is real. But only as real as we make it. It's a changeable reality, that's obvious. The thing that differs is how we go about changing it.
So, time. It exits, but only as an experience. And as you should know, a person's experience is defined by their perception of that experience.
If you want to change your experience, you change your perception of it, and you do this by acquiring relevant information, gaining knowledge and insight, experimenting, creating, and many more.
Time. It exists, all of it, at once. However, we, most of us, percieve it to be linear, which is ok coz that's part of this world's gift to us. Though, like you say, we can change our vibrationalality and experience it in another of it's forms.
Actually, you say by changing our vibrational energy we can change time.
I may not agree, but saying that, our explainations of what happens probally depends on our perception of what happens.
Now, imagine that all of your lives are present right now, not happening, but 'are', now, all of time 'is', all of time 'is'.
And that we are present in any number of these nows.
All we have to do to time travel between lives is to be more aware of being in another life, another now, than the one we are most aware of being in in this now.
Excuse me, I've lost the plot!
Light. I read this in a science magazine- 'How do you negate time? By travelling close to or at the speed of light.'
When you travel at the speed of light, your experience of time is changed. Your second becomes elongated, it stretches, so that one second at the speed of light is equal to roughly 770,700,000,000,000,000,...seconds on Earth. I think it's more. Actually, when you travel at the speed of light, your physical form is also stretched, the Concorde stretches by a foot when it hits the sound barrier. On it's last flight, the pilot put his hat inbetween one of the gaps in the walls of the cockpit when it hit the sound barrier and when the plane slowed down the Concorde de-stretched and now the hat is stuck there in the wall of the cockpit.
The article continued to say; 'By travelling close to or at the speed of light. If you are light then everything is instant.'
I've read a lot about time-travel and light and this struck a cord with me and my memory. I recalled- 'love and light'.
Love and light, is the highest vibration. The light at the end of the tunnel. Step into the light my son. It's an amazingly powerful and yet totally graceful vibration. I've meditated in the past to bring love and light into me to raise my vibrations and thus my awareness, I found that this now had some credability as regards moving through time, and thus space.
I'll say this, with troubled souls who won't move on to wherever they need to go after they've stepped out of their physcal vehicle, it's a lot easier for all involved to bring love and light to them rather than forcing them into the light. I was at a house where there was a spirit and lots of people had tried to move it on but failed. I went there with a friend and we imagined the spirit surrounded by white light and love, also with the help of some prayers, naturally, the spirit's awareness raised with it's vibration and then became aware of it's guide, when this happened it was out of our hands because the guide showed the spirit the truth and he moved on.
So, if you want to move through time you need only to change or raise your awareness of being in any of the nows you are currently present in, and you do this by surrounding or filling yourself with, by being, love and light.
You can do this by simply accepting that you are love and light. Visualization can help. Lots can help. Communication of your qualities will help you create your desire.
Like you say; Relax your mind, relax your body, relax your soul. Then, unite your mind with your body with your soul. Love and light my friend.

Love and light.

excwan.
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excwan



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said in my last statement that when you travel close to or at the speed of light your experience of time is changed. That's wrong. Your experience of it is the same as it would be as if you were travelling at a slug's pace. What I meant is that although your experience of it is unchanged, a second is a second and all that, the actual length of a second IS changed, it is stretched, compared to the length of a second at a slower speed.
I don't know if you understand this but hey, nevermind, in time you might.
LOL Very Happy

Also, as well as being love and light, using communication of your qualities as in manifestation, is a good way of channelling your intent for the desired effect.

excwan.
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