Mystical Wonders Discussion Group

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

Hello,

I found this site through a link, its very interesting to me because I've always wanted to ask people who believe and practice such things the following questions and to hear what people think.

The question of have is the ethics of it all. Lets assume that you do have the power to influence someone without them knowing it. What gives you the right to do so, either directly or indirectly? I wouldn't like the though of someone coming in my home and messing around with my stuff so I surely wouldn't like the idea of someone influencing me and trying to put thoughts into my head, would you?

An example from fiction would be the movie starwars when there are storm troopers searching for RU and obi wan uses a jedi mind trick to convince them that these weren't the droids they were looking for. Was that not the 'dark side of the force?'

How can messing with someone elses head ever be okay?

jacky_lightfoot · Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 247

most people who have the ability to do these things will not without permission to do so. Ofcourse its unethical! But you have to realize some people wish to be influenced for different.

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

jacky_lightfoot · Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 247

Katherinanyc28 · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 273 Location: nyc

The only time I would ever utilize my gift is to help another that otherwise couldn't help themselves. Otherwise you are forcing someone to be something they are not. Example forcing another to care for you never works if anything it causes the opposite to occur.

Anonymous · Guest

Not sure people are really bothered about the ethics of seduction. They just want their desires fullfilled.

Take a look at "Trance Formation of America" by O'Brien and Philips if you want one woman's auto-biography of massive mind control. It's not pretty reading.

Advertising & Marketing provide legitimised examples of mind control, although I still don't want to experience them. It's down to personal choice about where you want to draw the line.

Enjoy the ride, Keep your own mind

Patrick

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

Thanks for those responses people, everything everyone has responed with has been very helpful. Two posts in particular stand out as fascinating, one was -

"The only time I would ever utilize my gift is to help another that otherwise couldn't help themselves. Otherwise you are forcing someone to be something they are not. Example forcing another to care for you never works if anything it causes the opposite to occur."

Really? Why would it have the opposite effect? I'm not doubting what you say, just trying to understand why such an result would occur.

The other post that really stood out (althougth they were all good) was -

"Not sure people are really bothered about the ethics of seduction. They just want their desires fullfilled.

Take a look at "Trance Formation of America" by O'Brien and Philips if you want one woman's auto-biography of massive mind control. It's not pretty reading.

Advertising & Marketing provide legitimised examples of mind control, although I still don't want to experience them. It's down to personal choice about where you want to draw the line.

Enjoy the ride, Keep your own mind

Patrick"

So you're saying that the people who do such things are generally not to bothered about the ethics of it because all they care about is fulfulling their own [selfish?] desires? Is that what you're basically saying, that those who do such things are generally not moral people therefore morality doesn't come into the equation for them?

I would never describe myself as a mystic but I do believe that thoughts are things, at the moment I'm fascinated by Charles Hannel's book 'The Master Key' and I'm trying to understand it, in chapter 12 mr. Hannel writes something that really struck me -

[i]10. The power of thought has many counterfeits which are more or less fascinating, but the results are harmful instead of helpful.

11. Of course, worry, fear, and all negative thoughts produce a crop after their kind; those who harbor thoughts of this kind must inevitably reap what they have sown.

12. Again, there are the Phenomena seekers who gormandize on the so-called proofs and demonstration obtained at materializing sÃ©ances. They throw open their mental doors and soak themselves in the most poisonous currents which can be found in the psychic world. They do not seem to understand that it is the ability to become negative, receptive and passive, and thus drain themselves of all their vital force, which enables them to bring about these vibratory thought forms.

13. There are also the Hindu worshippers, who see in the materializing phenomena which are performed by the so-called adepts, a source of power, forgetting, or never seeming to realize that as soon as the will is withdrawn the forms wither, and the vibratory forces of which they are composed vanish.

14. Telepathy, or thought transference, has received considerable attention, but as it requires a negative mental state on the part of the receiver, the practice is harmful. A thought may be sent with the intention of hearing or seeing, but it will bring the penalty attached to the inversion of the principle involved.

15. In many instances, hypnotism is positively dangerous to the subject as well as the operator. No one familiar with the laws governing in the mental world would think of attempting to dominate the will of another, for by so doing, he will gradually (but surely) divest himself of his own power.

16. All of these perversions have their temporary satisfaction and for some a keen fascination, but there is an infinitely greater fascination in a true understanding of the world of power within, a power which increases with use; is permanent instead of fleeing; which not only is potent as a remedial agency to bring about the remedy for past error or results of wrong thinking, but is a prophylactic agency protecting us from all manner and form of danger, and finally is an actual creative force with which we can build new conditions and new environment.

I am trying to understand EXACTLY what is meant in versus 14 & 15 and I'd appreachate other peoples thoughts on this.

Again, thank you all for your input so far.

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

Sorry to be pain with even more questions but I'm new to all this. You see, I've only recently discovered that thoughts are things and have power and now that I've descovered this I feel that the most important thing to learn is the ethics of it all and the how to use it safely. When one descovers anything new the first thing they should seek to know is not what it can be used for but how to use it ethically and safely. For example, when people descovered nucular power they went out and made a bomb when they should really have spent time learning how to use their new power morally and safely, am I explaining myself okay?

Anyway, just two more questions, chapter 12, verse 14 of the master key -

Why does telepthy require a negative mental state on the part of the receiver?

And

What is meant by "the penalty attached to the inversion of the principle involved".

Anonymous · Guest

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

Thank you Patrick,

Yes, that was helpful. I think I understand what you're saying - certainly food for thought. But tell me one thing please. Can a person ever use the power of their mind to create harmony in their relationships, or to encourage someone to love them or care about them etc... etc... In an ethical manner that won't harm the person attempting to do it?

What can a person do to attract love, respect and meaningful relationships? And how can it be ethical to do i?

Anonymous · Guest

This is only my take on the matter, but here it is:

There's nothing you can do to make anyone love you or care for you. The only response I have available is to 'Give out what I want to receive' and to 'Be unattached to the outcome'.

If I can (just) allow myself to be more loving, honest, generous and communicative in general then those qualities will come into my life. But maybe not from a particular person I have in mind. But that's OK, because no other one person in particular could ever be the source of what I need.

Ok, polemic over. I guess it's about looking inside for the quality that you see as lacking around you. What's your gift to bring to the party?

I remember a phrase from Chuck Spezzano (i think it was him) that went soemthing like "What's the one thing that you wish your parent's gave you? Well, that's what you need to give them".

Eek! Scary stuff. As I said, it's just my take. Everyone's got their own ideas.

Speak soon

Patrick

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

Thanks again for that Patrick,

Yes, I think I'm inclined to agree with you. The way I see it (although this could change) is that if you love somebody and they don't love you back it hurts but those seduction/fall in love things can't be right even if they do work. I mean, if you actually loved someone, rather than lusted after them, would you want to try and *MAKE* them love you back?

This has always been some what off a moral dilema for me because I have everything else I want you see. I have a good job, money, family, friends and all that sort off stuff. So I guess I should really count my blessings rather than wonder how to have more when I'm so fortunate.

I learned from Hannel's and Hill's books that I could have millions if I wanted to because there is no limit on what can be made to appear, nature is so abundant, you don't get what belongs to someone else but as for money there is no reason why I couldn't have it. But not 'real' love - they never said much about how to have that. Thing is, I'm now quite happy with my income and all that for now.

So then I read here about the samethings that took me from being unemployed, unhappy and skint to having a well paying job that I like being able to be used to get me love. But there just seemed something so wrong with it all. Something not right, do you know what I mean????? I just couldn't see how it was okay to use it that way because everything I gained as a result of me changing my thinking didn't belong to someone else and didn't depend on anothers consent, it was like a seed that was mine to plant if I wished. But when it came to another person I didn't feel I had the moral right to do anything, and I guess when it comes to this person, I don't have any right to try changing their decision with my mind.

Thanks again Patrick, if anyone else reading this has any thoughts they'd like to add I'll read them and consider them carefully.

Oh by the way, Patrick, why do you write "'Be unattached to the outcome'."????? Would this help you get something without forcing it, or are you saying 'don't worry about it'? Because it's near impossible not to be worried or hurt about something like that.

Thanks again.

- David.

Anonymous · Guest

Hi,

I've got a set of Native American Tarot cards and I remember one of them being 'give to those nearby and receive from afar'. I took this to mean that, if you open your heart to those you know, you never know where the boomerang of love will get you from! Probably from outside your field of vision. Smile

It also means (to me) that if I'm only wanting love from one particualr person, I close myself from ...well the rest of the planet. Remaining unattacthed to the outcome means I don't mind how that love manifests for me in the 'real world'. Could be an older person, younger, same culture, different culture, blonde, dark etc etc.

It sounds like things are really working out for you on every (other) level. Stay connected and keep on going!

Best wishes
PAtrick

David · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7

Cheers!

Yeah, I'll stay connected, just wish there was a better guide to right and wrong with all this though, some off the stuff I've read or heard people advocating is pretty wicked...

- David.

Katherinanyc28 · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 273 Location: nyc

Let's say there is man that's in love with me but I don't love him. He decides to use black magic to "make" me love him and gets what he wants. Is this fair or right to me?? I wouldn't want someone trying to "force" me to feel something for them that I don't. Now in regards to white magic, you can use this to "help along" someone who has the "same" feelings for you! Also remember, your intuition tells you when your doing something your not supposed to be doing so the fact that you ask is because you want to do something and aren't sure if it will work, or if you will be making someone fall for you. Hope this helps to better clarify! Be Blessed Kat

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